The making of the mid-engined  V12 car "Supercar"

I have always wanted to make a car from the bottom up, having two petrol mad boys gave me the incentive to get something going. I bought a 1979 pre HE Jaguar V12, I bought a Porsche/Audi transaxle.....

This is the ongoing diary of the car's creation. The start date is 3rd Feb 2008 when I won the engine on eBay for the sum of £81.00. I drove to Peterbourgh to pick it up..

I had to get a load of stuff, the engine had been standing for some years, there were no electrics, it was a bare block of aluminium, albeit a huge 1/3rd of a tonne block! The gearbox choice wasn't easy, either Renault UN1 or Audi/VW transaxle. The Porsche transaxles cost a fortune so they were out of the question. Eventually I sourced an Audi gearbox from a 1980 car for £25.00 in Edgware Rd. I also found a nice chap with a garage full of XJS bits who supplied all the  Lucas Ignition and injection parts.

Here goes, the story as it unravels- -

On the 3rd Feb 2008 I bought a JAGUAR V12 5.3 LITRE ENGINE 75K MILES ( PRE HE ? ) , as it was advertised on ebay.  It looked a right sorry state.

I got it home  and started to work out what to do with it - I know I'll make something like a Zonda C12 Spyder.... Can't be too difficult can it?

I have a friend who can supply all the steel, eBay is great for all the other bits and my regular Ferrari website, is always great for advice and help. So now I have an idea and an engine, next comes the research - What chassis? What gearbox, what suspension etc... Well the internet came up trumps and I found two great websites, www.paralleldesigns.co.uk  and www.ultimasports.co.uk. Both of which have quite good photos of mid-engined spaceframe chassis designs. The next was to get the specifications of the C12,

1999 Pagani Zonda C12 Specifications

  1. engine Mercedes V12

  2. displacement 5987 cc / 365.3 cu in

  3. power 293.8 kw / 394.0 bhp @ 5200 rpm

  4. hp per litre 65.81 bhp per litre

  5. bhp/weight 

  6. torque 570 nm / 420.4 ft lbs @ 3800 rpm

  7. body / frame Carbon Fibre

  8. front brakes Brembro Vented Discs w/Hydraulic Assist

  9. f brake size 355 mm / 14.0 in

  10. rear brakes Brembro Vented Discs w/Hydraulic Assist    

  11. r brake size 335 mm / 13.2 in

  12. front tire size 255/40/18

  13. rear tire size 345/35/18

  14. steering Rack & Pinion w/Power Assist

  15. wheelbase 2730 mm / 107.5 in

  16. front track 1675 mm / 65.9 in

  17. rear track 1660 mm / 65.4 in

  18. length 4345 mm / 171.1 in

  19. width 1933 mm / 76.1 in

  20. transmission 6-Speed Manual

  21. top speed 297.7 kph / 185.0 mph

Here is the full story from the live blog at Ferrarichat.com

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Nickt

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QuestionJag V12


Hi Guys
I am thinking of building a kitcar and putting a 5.3 HE jag V12 in it. Seen one I like, but... and its a big but... Does anyone know how long the V12 is, I know it weighs 300kg but I have to get it in the back of a Ford focus

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickt

Hi Guys
I am thinking of building a kitcar and putting a 5.3 HE jag V12 in it. Seen one I like, but... and its a big but... Does anyone know how long the V12 is, I know it weighs 300kg but I have to get it in the back of a Ford focus

indeed.
Can't help you with the dimensions, but this I gotta see. Nick please post updates if this project gets off the ground.

P.S. If the Jag V12 is too long, how about a small block V8?

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by

indeed.
Can't help you with the dimensions, but this I gotta see. Nick please post updates if this project gets off the ground.

P.S. If the Jag V12 is too long, how about a small block V8?

I don't want to do a V8, already got one of those in the GT4 I am just googling jag V12, and it looks like they are about 34" long and a 3rd of a tonne.

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickt

I don't want to do a V8, already got one of those in the GT4 I am just googling jag V12, and it looks like they are about 34" long and a 3rd of a tonne.

Go with the Jag 12, make everything possible to fit the engine, it would be wayy cool to have that engine. If properly tuned they run great, and if you fit some nice headers and Webers it is a monster.

 

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I think it will fit in the back of the Focus but how will you lift it in and out?

  

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by

I think it will fit in the back of the Focus but how will you lift it in and out?

Fork lift truck his end, gravity mine I guess, probably make a ramp and slide it out attached to a block and tackle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by

forget building one yourself and buy this:-http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C25240 and it comes with a spare engine.

The size you need is 36 inch long 34 wide and 34 high,[ without gear box, it can be made smaller by takeing off the air cleaners and pullys] they are very heavy [ 4 man lift] , i used a small trailer and lifted in on with an engine hoist one end and a JCB the other. what is the kit you are thinking of?


Dunno yet, saw the lump and am buying it, figure out what to put it in next. I fancy building some kind of space framed chassis mid engined thing. Next I need to source a gearbox/tranny unit I can mate up to the V12, Once I have all the bits I can work on where I can put it all.

 

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Hi Grant
I now have my V12, its huge!!
However, i need to convert it to a manual flywheel. do you know whether the flywheels on straight six's and interchangeable with the V12's?
My fly wheel is 345mm in diameter and has 12 bolt holes in the middle 92mm pcd

Also if anyone can help with the engine type..
number 8S 16503 HA

Any help would be awesome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You'll need a flywheel from a Series 3 Etype.

This is the
LEAST of your problems.

 

 

 

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and an inverted Porsche transaxle if your going mid engined.

was a keen kit car person in my youth - you are about to climb a mountain - check you oxygen supply, altitude does funny things to the brain, before you know it you'll be saying "how hard can it be"...

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 

You'll need a flywheel from a Series 3 Etype.

This is the
LEAST of your problems.

Go on then Tim, what’s the biggest problemhttp://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/Images/smilies/eek.gif?
I am going to build a spaceframe chassis, mount the V12 in the middle coupled to either a Renault UN1 or Audi/VW transaxle via an adapter plate. Running gear will hopefully be mk3 Granada.

 

 

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Hi Nick
it's an HE engine looking at the fuel injection rail, it should have small spark plugs [ they are a nightmare to change as the thread seizes up as they don't get change often enough as they are hard to get at.
Good luck with it and keep us informed.
Grant

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickt

Go on then Tim, what's the biggest problemhttp://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/Images/smilies/eek.gif?
I am going to build a spaceframe chassis, mount the V12 in the middle coupled to either a Renault UN1 or Audi/VW transaxle via an adapter plate. Running gear will hopefully be mk3 Granada.

I'll start by saying that I work on 12 cylinder Jags and own one.

Considering size and weight it is very underpowered, prone to overheating and leaks and very expensive to rebuild. The result is a not really attractive engine (compared to other V12's) that has a pretty unimpressive sound.

Unless you know the history of the engine you bought, expect to spend a lot to get it right.

The intake system is pretty restrictive and is a lot of the reason for the poor performance. I would throw it out and go with downdraft Webers if you can afford the cost and increased height.

I once dreamed of a project like you are describing and I assembled many of the components (including the Webers and manifolds). After a while the insanity passed.

Good Luck, if you go forward I hope you'll document it and keep us informed.

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by

Hi Nick
it's an HE engine looking at the fuel injection rail, it should have small spark plugs [ they are a nightmare to change as the thread seizes up as they don't get change often enough as they are hard to get at.
Good luck with it and keep us informed.
Grant

Hi Grant
It has standard plugs , N9YC - Unipart GSP4362 plugs, I pulled them out to see how it last ran, and everyone looks OK, the oil is clean, and it turns over, albeit you can feel loads of compression - and that's without oily bores.
The motor had only done 70k miles, so not a lot for a big lump like this. I checked the only resource I could find and it seemed to suggest that this engine is a early pre HE block (the 8s in the engine number?)

Thanks for the tip re flywheel. I will post a blog somewhere when i ger started. This weekend i am starting by making a 10th scale model so i can mount the V12 and check for stresses etc..
Cheers
Nick

Quote:

Originally Posted by

I'll start by saying that I work on 12 cylinder Jags and own one.

Considering size and weight it is very underpowered, prone to overheating and leaks and very expensive to rebuild. The result is a not really attractive engine (compared to other V12's) that has a pretty unimpressive sound.

Unless you know the history of the engine you bought, expect to spend a lot to get it right.

The intake system is pretty restrictive and is a lot of the reason for the poor performance. I would throw it out and go with downdraft Webers if you can afford the cost and increased height.

I once dreamed of a project like you are describing and I assembled many of the components (including the Webers and manifolds). After a while the insanity passed.

Good Luck, if you go forward I hope you'll document it and keep us informed.

I have always wanted to make a car from scratch, so now's the chance - the regs around registration are pretty tough now, everything has to be TIG welded, and made from CDS tube. I am also going to cast my own body, the idea to make something that resembles a ZONDA C12. I was thinking of doing a Lambo, but there are too many of them around http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/Images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I have drawn rough plans for the chassis, will hopefully order up some bits of steel next week (subject to wife permitting).

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickt

The motor had only done 70k miles, so not a lot for a big lump like this.I checked the only resource I could find and it seemed to suggest that this engine is a early pre HE block (the 8s in the engine number?)

The early engines are prone to dropped valve seats (from overheating), have low compression ratios (cylinder heads are flat, combustion chambers are in dished piston tops.

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by

The early engines are prone to dropped valve seats (from overheating), have low compression ratios (cylinder heads are flat, combustion chambers are in dished piston tops.

I was told that the pre HE engines are the best for tuning, due to the flat cylinder head?

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickt

I was told that the pre HE engines are the best for tuning, due to the flat cylinder head?

Not sure why that would be so.

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